I don’t even care about any of the Rook MUs other than vs Grave. vs Jaina I can see ways to win. vs Geiger I can see ways to win. vs Grave, I pray they don’t know how to use wind and then also make a bunch of other mistakes.
I have received the vs. Grave CWisdom. I will try to implement this and report back to the thread.
I too am struggling mightly piloting Rook against Grave, and have definitely been dominated by a Setsuki. I am not a pro though
Nobody is pros in this game yet ^^
More data is needed, but early indicators are that the CWisdom is effective. Definitely felt much more in control of the MU. Need to play more Graves to be sure. Especially need to play Graves that have kicked my ass before.
Here’s a recording of Wheezy winning 100 games against Lofo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC2OdliP1Bs&feature=youtu.be&t=40
This is an old version though, from before Sets got the 2nd (1st) hit on her B.
Overall - Would be better off trying to go in with JCA at the ranges where kunai are being thrown
1:22 - 4 damage punish missed
2:22 - another 4 damage punish missed
3:11 - This is why you go in with JCA and not JA
3:47 - Should have been 4 damage, got grabbed instead
4:07 - Bad punish again
4:20 - Gave up free pressure
4:21 - Another 4 damage punish missed
5:08 - Opportunity to pressure not taken
5:20 - PUNISH PLS
5:23 - PLSSSSS
I’ll watch more when I get home, but Setsuki needs to improve offense here.
Organized and streamed by @Bomber678 and the loser can’t use that use that color anymore.
I’d recommend getting someone with a better connection to stream…
Anyone who was there will tell you snoc’s stream was a vast improvement.
Well the new patch should change this chart completely.
I’ll be damn if I actually rework it, I don’t want to turn this into another counter combos thread.
The old MU chart was already not very good, and I don’t think it will get worse
What does it say about me that as I know what the image would be as soon as I got to the eyebrows?
Probably that you spend a lot of time browsing internet memes. You are not the only one guilty of it, don’t worry about it.
LUM WINS EVERY MATCHUP I BELIEVE
This is a complete sentence
I think Lum struggles with Jaina
I said that after looking at him once, and I wasn’t that serious, although he did look really good
My thoughts on Lum after playing a bunch of matches.
Jaina - At least 7-3 Jaina. This matchup is ridiculously bad, maybe even 8-2. Lum has to go crazily offensive vs Jaina because her ranged game completely shuts down his items, and with no move that has any projectile invincibility he just doesn’t have the tools for it (yes, there is a very small window in the middle of the animation where ground B can go through an arrow, but it’s very small and if you mistime it you’re taking a lot of damage). He needs like 5-6 correct guesses per round to win, whereas she only needs 1 or 2. Basically every round is decided within the first few seconds, if Jaina gets a good hit and pushes him away, he’s not coming back. IMO, this is likely the worst matchup in the entire game.
Midori - I suspect this is 6-4 Midori. The strategy for Midori here is just to pay super patient and get Dragon form. Once he’s a dragon, he can press the advantage super hard due to Lum’s poor reversal options. This forces Lum to rush down when he’s not in Dragon form to try to kill him faster, but counter is a very strong option when he does this.
Setsuki - Probably 5.5-4.5 Setsuki. She has great tools to get in quickly or get around his items, so their usage is limited in this matchup, and Lum has no good tools to get her off him once she does get in. In particular, I feel that this matchup is quite a bit harder than vs Val.
Rook - I feel like this is 5-5, maybe 5.5-4.5 Lum. Lum has good keepaway vs Rook and his Air B breaks armor, but he has very poor reversal options so if Rook does get in, he can quickly die. Rook also hugely benefits from cherries and cake, as his ground super is very powerful in this match and it’s a battle of attrition with him anyway, and his ground punch is good at collecting them. This is definitely much easier than vs Midori, though.
Valerie - I believe this is probably 5-5. Like almost all of Valerie’s matchups, her buttons are stupid good, but if the opponent gets one good hit she’s almost dead. In particular, I feel like Lum’s supers are very scary for her, because they force her to ease off on the offense for a second and she can easily die from it.
Grave - I’ve only played this a couple times. I suspect it’s probably 5-5 or 5.5-4.5 Lum but I can’t say for sure. I did notice that you have to be very careful with your wind usage in this match, as you can easily blow yourself into items or other bad situations.
Geiger - I’ve only fought this once and the Geiger player wasn’t very good, though I feel like Geiger has the tools to shut down most of Lum’s shenanigans. No rating for now but probably near even.
DeGrey - probably 6-4 Lum, possibly even 7-3. Lum’s easiest matchup for sure, I don’t think I’ve ever lost it. DeGrey’s forward movement is slow, so if there’s any kind of space between them, Lum is very free to throw items, and items cause a lot of problems for DeGrey. His only hope in this matchup is to push Lum to the corner, but it’s a struggle for sure.
My Lum matchups after about 3 days of playing as him are as follows:
Pretty much the same thing you said with Jaina, but I don’t think it’s an 8-2 at all. If Lum can get a crossup he can combo for 3 damage and still stay up close, which is uncharacteristically where he wants to be in this matchup. It’s barely an advantage but it stops it from being ridiculously one-sided.
I agree with what you said for Midori but I feel you’re failing to take into account that there’s a chance that you’ll throw out a cake in a way that will allow Midori to eat it, filling half his super meter. It may not be crazy likely but the mere possibility tilts it that little bit more into Midori’s favour for me.
Honestly, I can’t see Setsuki being anything but even. If you space yourself out enough to get some safe item tosses it’ll be in your favour, but if you’re careless and let Setsuki get in close it’ll be in hers.
I think the matchup against Val is in her favour tho, only by a bit. The only thing that I think puts her over is that she outranges and out speeds Lum, which is good enough to make up for her weakness against Lum’s supers.
If you can space some safe item tosses out against Rook you can really wreck his shit. Combine that with Lum’s good crossup options, which beat out some of his better moves, and you have a matchup I feel is in Lum’s favour. One of only a few though.
Grave wrecks Lum’s shit. Grave’s projectiles beat out Lum’s items, his buttons beat out Lum’s approaches and his wind can be used to bring healing items to him and push bombs towards Lum. It’s an absolute advantage as far as I’m concerned.
DeGrey is definitely 7-3 Lum. The only way I could see a DeGrey beating a Lum is if he played a consistently up close and in your face style. It’s not like DeGrey can’t do it, but it’s only part of his kit that’s able to do that.
I think we can agree that Lum is not a high tier character. Too many other characters have easy ways of shutting him down, especially with projectiles, which I feel he may have benefited from better options against. I’ll say this though, he’s certainly a fun character. If I have a bunch of friends over with no idea what to do, I’ll get us to play Fantasy Strike together for a Lum ditto. Lum dittos are like Baby Park in Mario Kart, nothing but pure, undiluted, glorious chaos and I love it. I won’t be picking him in any competitive setting though.
You forgot Geiger.
I really like your numbers, I’ll make a few points though. Correct me if I’m wrong as my Lum experience is honestly quite limited.
Midori: while I agree that cake helps Midori a lot, don’t forget that it’s way easier for Lum to get those with his B as most of the time Lum will use item toss while the opponent is mid or fullscreen away. Lum can also pick up cherries to heal, making Midori have to take a few risks to get in. That said, once Midori is a Dragon, Lum does struggle a lot, but to me it doesn’t look more than a 5-5 (5.5 - 4.5 tops).
Rook: while Lum can keep him out pretty well decently, Rook does have jC to stop him from tossing too many items. Also cake does help Rook a lot too as once he has Super he can punish on reaction Lum’s jB. Once cornered, or even more so in vortex, Lum will have an incredibly hard time against Rook thanks to his lack of reversal. This MU also looks like a 5-5 to me.
Grave: I can see this MU being 3-7 terrible, but Grave can’t really use wind to keep Lum from taking items as the startup is way too long. Again thought, this MU sucks.
DeGrey: I’m starting to see DeGrey struggling to get in, but Lum’s lack of reversal makes his pressure pretty good once he does. I’d say 6-4?
Again, correct me if something I said is wrong.