Well maybe I just haven’t played against very many good DeGreys then, because his movement options seem interesting but not the most helpful and while he does have some really cool moves, a lot of them are crazy unsafe on block. With Rook on the other hand, I know he’s definitely bottom tier. The dude just doesn’t have good matchups beyond DeGrey and Val. Others are either even or stacked heavily against him.
I think part of the deal is that projectiles are just SO GOOD
I think if you were to try and projectile someone to death in street fighter it would take at least 20.
But in this game a projectiles deal 1/6 of your life, and combos deal half.
Obviously Guile’s boom game is vital to his keepaway strats, but imagine if you lost a round by touching only 6 booms? Or more realistically, you get over the booms but you eat a flash kick and now you’re full screen again and you’re down 1/6 of your life.
It’s not hard to dodge fireballs or even block them, but damn if they aren’t extremely low risk for a fairly high reward.
I still think that Rook’s clap could be faster, because it’s often times very risky to use against Grave fireballs and you don’t really get much ground moving forward.
His air B is probably the better option to deal with zoning.
Rook’s? I mean sure you can get through projectiles with it, but if you’re close to your opponent when doing so they can just counter it with their iframe moves which will then send you back to the other side of the screen. A faster clap would be way more efficient at dealing with projectiles.
Rook’s jB is super unsafe though, and it’s lack of a hitbox on the legs makes it very vulnerable. Geiger often kicks his legs and Sets catches him with hooligan.
I didn’t say you could just use it mindlessly, but it’s great against zoners for sure.
Up close you always have fA, and you can bait air Bs with empty jumps in punish. If the opponent is throwing projectiles, he won’t have enough recovery speed punish an empty jump too… unless it’s Geiger I guess.
I may be misunderstanding you, but the only ones that I know of that are crazy unsafe on block are his BB (ground and air) and BC. Everything else is very safe to because they are designed to frame trap the opponent. Specifically, BB is -15 on block, BC is -12 on block, and BB in the air varies but is generally pretty unsafe. I don’t think his bA is really considered “unsafe” because even when the opponent blocks, they are pushed apart pretty far and is -4 on block. So, every other move is plus on block.
Well I do think you are misunderstanding me a bit, since I was mostly referring to his “cool” moves, so only the ones that are more favourable and damaging. I also remember getting pretty good punishes off after blocking his air super and his ghost attack, (though admittedly I was prety close during that) as well as his aerials.
That’s what I thought you may be referring to when you were referencing the crazy unsafe on block, but I wasn’t sure one way or the other.
His BC isn’t very damaging, but his BB definitely can be. Although, to be fair, I think his BC is more designed to be used to hit someone out of their attack due to the strike invulnerability. I think he has some pretty good normals because of the plus on block as well as setting up good combos on counter hit. I find it interesting that you got good punishes off of his aerials since I usually get plus on block on his aerials… I may be misremembering though. I’ll have to check it out later.
Current post-SCR tier list:
A+: DeGrey, Grave, Val
A: Setsuki, Jaina, Geiger, Midori
Wait this game was at SCR? Was there a tournament or soemthing? Is this available on youtube?
oh damn Geiger has fallen?
@MadKing’s tier list seems like a fair assessment
do other people agree?
With no order inside tiers:
A++: Geiger, Midori
A: Jaina, Grave, Valerie, DeGrey, Rook
Setsuki could just be A, maybe I’m just bad against her.
Geiger gives the hardest time to Jaina and Rook, like 3-7 hard. And finding a counter for him isn’t easy.
Midori is stupid, move along.
Rook has hard matchups, but easy ones too. They balance out, so I’m super against this “Rook is low tier trend”.
Valerie could use a buff to her yellow options, it really makes no sense that she can be grabbed out of them, but besides that she’s solid.
Well once he’s dragon form there’s no stopping him, and while he’s human both his parry and Yomi counter can help him charge his meter very quickly.
The result is that you are scared of going on the offensive too much, but if you don’t and he plays by the clock he also charges his meter.
On top of that, in human form his footsies aren’t bad at all, and neither is his pressure (with the multiple As). Also his throw mixup is stronger being a grappler (and throws are already super strong in this game), and he gets a command grab (that option selects) on top of that once he is purple.
One thing that helped me against Dragon Form Midori is to look specifically only for his air and ground grabs, and otherwise just block. Looking for only 2 options rather than trying to respond to each option as it’s own thing helped allow me to react much more consistently.
I try doing the same, but once he gets close, and he will thanks to his B, it’s easier said than done.
be more aggressive on his human form. He has a lot less to work with than you think. All the problems you have are his defensive options but you just have to make sure you don’t be predictable.
If you think he wants to parry, bait it, and then do a full combo, or throw if you think that’s safer