On the one hand, I really prefer having only three attack buttons and one jump button, to map cleanly onto a standard controller without needing shoulder buttons for an ordinary command. On the other hand, I do really enjoy the new throw behavior. I’d love it if it were somehow possible to put throw on A+B and super on B+C, but my understanding is that that would be decidedly undesirable by most (including the devs).
I think this is the best solution. As an alternate “Down+Jump” (This is a joke - if Jump is set to up on any sort of controller, throwing becomes impossible.)
The first time I played Fantasy Strike with my girlfriend, her only real feedback about it was “why isn’t there a throw button?”
Having played other fighting games, I had gotten used to more complex throw inputs (2 buttons in BlazBlue, Forward/Backward + button in SF & MvC, etc). I hadn’t really considered a single button for throws. [For the record, my girlfriend is interested in fighting games but hasn’t played them much.]
Lo and behold, the next weekend we had a chance to play it throw was moved to its own button. I was skeptical, but it quickly grew on me and I found myself using throws a lot more. My girlfriend also used throws a lot more, which meant we had more throws and yomi counters than in the first weekend we had played together.
Having throws on their own button just felt ‘right’ in Fantasy Strike, and if it could get my girlfriend to use them more then I definitely think it’s more friendly to newcomers to the fighting game genre. One extra button wasn’t problematic on keyboard or controller, so I’d definitely vote on keeping it in if I had the chance.
I personally really like having a dedicated throw button because I dislike it when certain moves are automatically replaced by something else. I also come from other fighting games where throw is either a dedicated button or a combination of buttons.
However, my question is: Does the yomi counter activate on the frame that you are grabbed? Then, I can understand the discussion about the accidental yomi counters when two people are going for a throw and one hits the button late. However, if we want to minimize accidental yomi counters, I can see two different solutions (other than the current direction+throw will beat neutral throw if they activate on the same frame).
One solution (this one as my preferred solution) would be that for a period of a certain amount of frames after the character is grabbed (say 8 frames just to keep it consistent with the game-wide 8 frame input buffer), if the defending player presses a button, then it would not activate a yomi counter. In effect, there would be a period of 11 frames after the first player pressed throw (assuming the grab was on the first active frame) that the second player cannot press anything in order to yomi counter. This is roughly equivalent to Virtua Fighter’s 12 frame buffer for a throw escape (you can input a throw escape up to 12 frames after the throw first connects). So, this would be more likely to catch people who were trying to throw at the same time. Additionally, it would place a lot less emphasis on trying to press direction+throw simultaneously from neutral in order to get the accidental yomi counter and still get the advantage of beating out a neutral throw.
Another solution would be to have neutral throw have longer startup frames. I dislike this solution because it would catch a lot of new players off-guard if they did not know the implications of this mechanic. I would rather the game be much more uniform with respect to the throw button.
Require an extra frame or two of no input to qualify for Yomi Counter
is the decision on having a throw button gone final?
I don’t think it’s officially final until Early Access ends, but it seems like the status quo for now, at least.
To make it crystal clear:
There is a combination of two ‘face buttons’ you can use to throw ánd there is a throw button nowadays.
Yes, you can throw with the throw button, or you can choose to use a 2-button macro.
In SF2, holding back/forward+fierce is fine to throw. Throwing people accidentally isn’t really a thing, since throws are very good anyway. It turns out we had too many complaints about throwing accidentally in our game though. The reason is if you happen to throw accidentally, and they happen to yomi counter you, it felt really bad and enraged people. So it’s not a thing anymore.
I love to see that this game has a throw button now. Coming from Tekken, smash, soul calibur, mortal combat, throwing with forward+attack always seemed like an option select to me (being a noob I used it that way in for example umvc3 spamming forward + fierce with taskmaster gives a bunch of attacks and sonetimes throws).
Now, we just need a block button
I wasn’t around when the game was missing the Throw button, but I’m glad it’s gone. I saw the value of adding a separate Throw button when I moved from the 2D fighting game Bleach: The Blade of Fate to its sequel Bleach: Dark Souls.
The Blade of Fate let you throw with Forward+Medium or Forward+Heavy, which would throw if the opponent was close enough and attack otherwise. I used throws all the time against the CPU (the only opponent available), and fighting was often too easy because the opponent blocking had no effect on my attacks when I was close enough. To use terminology I have learned from Fantasy Strike’s documentation, my throw’s option select let me ignore the blocking mechanic too often.
Bleach: Dark Souls changed this to having to press Light+Medium to attempt a grab, with some recovery time if you missed. I didn’t have an opinion on grabs when I played the first game, but when I played Bleach: Dark Souls I soon noticed how it made the game more interesting by forcing me to pay attention to whether my opponent was blocking instead of blindly running into them and attacking.
However, that change to the Bleach games is not exactly comparable to Fantasy Strike, since blocking in the Bleach games is done with a dedicated button while standing still, not by walking away from the opponent. So your opponent is more likely to be in grab range in Bleach.